Newsletter May 29, 2016 No. 198
The Robert C. Dold, and other, military belt buckles
The recent article by Dr. Frank Thayer appearing in the ‘Military Advisor’ magazine on the SS enlisted personnel belt buckles by Robert Dold (RODO) has stirred up controversy among certain collectors and members of militaria forums.
When the article appeared, there were public outcries from several German militaria forum participants, including leaders of the belt buckle sections and authors of material on the same subject.
Their cry was that all the buckles shown in the Thayer article were fakes. They produced no evidence in support of their claim but made a great deal of outraged noise.
A careful search of photographs and other material concerning the RODO buckles has very clearly shown that the buckles shown in the article are completely genuine to the period.
Why, then has such a vicious attack been made on Dr. Thayer and his buckles?
The German militaria collecting world, like the world of fine art, is controlled by a few individuals and their allies. The forums are merely sounding boards for merchandisers as well as ego-builders for those with personality deficiencies.
In this case, typical of its kind, there is a created demand for RODO buckles and to augment a small supply of genuine ones, dealers and their cooperative “experts” have filled the need.
They do this by purchasing modern replica buckles, antiquing them by putting them in a rotating clothes dryer until they become chipped and worn, and then painting them with ‘Rustall,’ a product used in model railroading. This puts what appears to be a rust coating on the buckle. But this finish can be removed by using a swab and solvent.
Acetone is the most effective testing medium.
Genuine rust will not come off but the applied ‘Rustall’ will.
And as all the generic fakes have the belt catch hook the same on all their pieces, the fakers now claim that these recent fakes are the genuine RODO buckle and the genuine ones with the easily-identifiable twisted leg on the catch hook are fakes.
And because genuinely informative articles or postings bring the recent fakes into question, these are at once attacked, in self-defense, by the dealers in fakes and their co-conspirators.
That is why the Thayer article has been attacked.
Here, from German wartime records, available to the public from the Bundesarchiv in Coblenz, Germany, is a complete listing of the German RZM, and other, producers of military belt buckles.
It is interesting to note that there are offered for sale, purported RODO buckles with RZM logos stamped into them. Since Robert C. Dold, the manufacturer of RODO buckles, was not under contract with the RZM, such a buckle is obviously a fake.
RZM-M4 Belt Buckles
Since the first RZM production licenses were issued on March 9, 1935, no buckles released prior to that time would bear the RZM M4/ code. This would account for the number of SA, German Youth and Hitler Youth buckles without RZM marks.
RZM Number Manufacturer City
1 M4/1 Ferdinand Hofstatter Bonn a.R.
M4/1 through M4/47 contract code numbers were issued between March 9, 1935 and December 31, 1935
2 M4/2 Martin Winter Munchen
3 M4/3 Kallenbach, Mayer & Franke Luckenwalde
4 M4/4 Gustav Emil Ficker Beierfeld
5 M4/5 Leistner & Cie. Leipzig
6 M4/6 C. u. W. Meinel-Scholar Klingenthal
7 M4/7 Hermann Sprenger Iserlohn
8 M4/8 Rudolf Wachtler & Lange Mittweida
9 M4/9 Albert Winges Trusen (Thuringen)
10 M4/10 Bernhard Haarmann Ludenscheid
11 M4/11 August Enders AG Ludenscheid
12 M4/12 Mathias Kutsch Attendorn (MK)
13 M4/13 Paul Schuhmacher Ludenscheid
14 M4/14 Otto Fechler Bernsbach
15 M4/15 Paul Meybauer Berlin SW68
16 M4/16 Robert Tummler Döbeln
17 M4/17 Ernst Meissner Holenlimburg
18 M4/18 Julius Bauer Söhne Zella-Mehlis
19 M4/19 Ernst Schneider Ludenscheid (ESL)
20 M4/20 Hillenbrand & Bröer Ludenscheid
21 M4/21 Hans Schönfelder Mitweide
22 M4/22 Christian Theodor Dicke Ludenscheid (CTD; CTH)
23 M4/23 Dr. Franke & Cie KG Ludenscheid
24 M4/24 Friedrich Linden Ludenscheid (FLL)
25 M4/25 Noelle & Heuck KG Ludenscheid (N&H)
26 M4/26 Offenberg-Engels Iserlohn
27 M4/27 Overhoff & Cie Ludenscheid (O &C; OCL)
28 M4/28 Paulmann & Crone Ludenscheid (PC)
29 M4/29 K. Fr. Brahm Furth
30 M4/30 Berg & Nolte AG Ludenscheid (B&N L)
31 M4/31 Max Haufe Grossröhrsdorf
32 M4/32 Gerbruder Hahne Ludenscheid
33 M4/33 J.D. von Hagen GmbH Iserlohn
34 M4/34 Heinrich Nordwall Dransfeld & Co Menden
35 M4/35 Moeller & Schröder Offenbach a.M.
36 M4/36 Ludenscheid Knopffabrik von Hofe & Co GmbH Ludenscheid 37 M4/37 Stefan Merkl Nurnberg
38 M4/38 Richard Sieper & Söhne Ludenscheid (R.S&S.)
39 M4/39 F. W. Assmann & Söhne Ludenscheid (A;A&S)
40 M4/40 Giesse & Schmidt Ruhla (Thuringen)
41 M4/41 Schmal & Schultz Wuppertal-Barmen
42 M4/42 Hermann Aurich Dresden A16 (H.A.)
43 M4/43 H.A. Erbe Schmalkalden
44 M4/44 Paul Cramer & Cie Ludenscheid
45 M4/45 Cramer & Dornbach Ludenscheid
46 M4/46 Wilhelm Schroder & Cie Ludenscheid
47 M4/47 Ebberg & Co Ludenscheid
48 M4/48 P.C. Turck Wwe Ludenscheid
M4/48 through M4/64 contract code numbers were issued between January 1, 1936 and December 1936
49 M4/49 Steinhauer & Luck Ludenscheid
50 M4/50 Willy Thuy Ludenscheid
51 M4/51 Horner & Dittermann Wuppertal-Barmen
52 M4/52 Linden und Funke GmbH Iserlohn
53 M4/53 Zieh-Press-u. Stanzwerk Zwintschona bei Halle
54 M4/54 Willy Annetsberger Munchen
55 M4/55 Julius Kremp Ludenscheid
56 M4/56 Friedrich Keller Oberstein a.d. Nahe
57 M4/57 Julius Maurer Oberstein a.d. Nahe
58 M4/58 Wilhelm Deus Solingen
59 M4/59 Adolf Baumeister Ludenscheid (Ad.B.L.)
60 M4/60 Gustav Brehmer Markneukirchen (GB)
61 M4/61 Julius Dinnebier Nachf. Ludenscheid
62 M4/62 Arld Heinrich Nurnberg Ost
63 M4/63 Werner Redo Saarlautern
64 M4/64 Otto Geiger Ludenscheid
65 M4/65 Georg Bonitz Schwarzenberg
M4/65 through M4/79 contract code numbers were issued between January 1, 1937 and December 31, 1937
66 M4/66 Stimming u. Venzlaff Altenburg
67 M4/67 Emil Juttner Ludenscheid
68 M4/68 Norddeutsches Nickel u. Silberwaren GmbH Hamburg 39
69 M4/69 Meyer & Wilhelm Stuttgart
70 M4/70 Kugel & Fink Ludenscheid
71 M4/71 Lehmann & Wundenberg Hannover
72 M4/72 Wilhelm Deumer Ludenscheid
73 M4/73 Lohmann & Welschehold Meinerzhagen
74 M4/74 Wilhelm Geiger GmbH Ludenscheid
75 M4/75 Walter Demmer Ludenscheid
76 M4/76 Petz & Koch Unterreichenenbach
77 M4/77 Gebruder Gloerfeld Ludenscheid
78 M4/78 F. K. Volgelsang & Cie Ludenscheid
79 M4/79 Hillenbrand & Broer Ludenscheid
80 M4/80 Lind & Meyer Oberstein a.d. Nahe
81 M4/81 Inhaber Frau Johanna Kaukal Wien
M4/81 through M4/106 were contract code numbers issued manufacturing firms located in the newly acquired Austrian territory. The numbers, to include M4/80, were issued January 1, 1938 and December 1938
82 M4/82 List & Hertl Wien
83 M4/83 (Unknown) (Unknown)
84 M4/84 Grossman & Co Mahrisch-Trubau
85 M4/85 Fr. Bibus & Sohn Mahrisch-Trubau
86 M4/86 Heubach & Co Oberstein
87 M4/87 Matth. Salcher & Sohne AG Wagstadt (Sudetenland)
88 M4/88 Augustin Hieke Tyussa bei Bodenbach
89 M4/89 Reichelmann & Co Tellnitz bei Aussig
90 M4/90 Ad. Grohmann & Sohn Wurbenthal (Sudetenland)
91 M4/91 (Unknown) (Unknown)
92 M4/92 Heinrich Ulbrichts Witwe Wien XIII
93 M4/93 Lenkwerk Bruder Schneider AG Wien VI
94 M4/93 J. Hammer & Sohne Geringswalde (after Jan ’39)
95 M4/94 Raimond Moser Wien VII
96 M4/95 Frankz Weinrank Wien VI
97 M4/96 Hans Pacher Wien XVIII
98 M4/97 Friedrich Ort Wien VI
99 M4/98 Frankz Petzl Wien VI
100 M4/99 Franke & Sohn Heidenreichstein
101 M4/100 Rudolf Meschiga Wien VIII
102 M4/101 Dominik Schonbaumsfeld’s Sohn Wien I
103 M4/102 William Prym Wien III
104 M4/103 Rudolf Schanes Wien XIII
105 M4/104 Phil. Turks Wwe. Wien XVI/2
106 M4/105 Argentor Werke Wien VII
107 M4/106 Maria Schenkl Wien XVI
108 M4/107 Franke & Feif Stuttgart
M4/107 through M4/121 contract code numbers were issued between 1939 and 1944
109 M4/108 Adalb. Kanngeisser Wien
110 M4/109 Rud. und Karl Kraus Solingen
111 M4/110 Josef Feix Sohne Gablonz (JFS)
112 M4/111 (Unknown) (Unknown)
113 M4/112 (Unknown) (Unknown)
114 M4/113 (Unknown) (Unknown)
115 M4/114 Otto Honsel Werdohl
116 M4/115 Klein & Quenzer AG Oberstein
117 M4/116 Camill Bergmann & Co Gablonz (Sudetenland)
118 M4/117 W. Aurich Leipe
119 M4/118 Werner Redo Saarlautern (reissue)
120 M4/119 Eugen Schmiedhausler Pforzheim
121 M4/120 Karl Hensler Metallwarenfabrik Pforzheim
122 M4/121 (Unknown) (Unknown)
The following manufacturers produced belt buckles, but were not licensed by the RZM
No. Manufacturer
1 Gebruder Baumgartner
2 Berkemeyer & Cie
3 Berlin SW 15
4 J. Deutschbein
5 Robert C. Dold (RODO)
6 Dresden
7 Euskirchen
8 Frankfurt/Main
9 Goch/Rheinland
10 Gottlieb & Sohne
11 ARG GmbH
12 Hamburg
13 Hermann Koller
14 Konigsberg
15 Bad Kudowa I. Sch.
16 Mannheim
17 Menden
18 Josef Mold
19 Mulheim/Ruhr (B&C)
20 Nowa
21 Oberstein (L.G.S.)
22 Offenburg
23 Pforzheim (HK)
24 L. Regensburg
25 Schmolle & Co.
26 Springer & Co.
27 H. Tietz
28 Wiedmann
German 
English (United States)
12 thoughts on “Newsletter May 29, 2016 No. 198”
Not a bad article but a little short. I picked up a box of original German belt buckles when I was in Russia and it is being shipped. I got maybe 25-30 and have no idea what they are. When they come, I will photograph them and send the pictures to you. If you would like any, just ask. I have been looking at the forums out of fun and find them a little annoying. Very opinionated people and one Dutchman thinks you are three or four people. I guess pot is legal in Holland so maybe he was stoned. He is one of those people who say they know everything but pretty obviously, know nothing. The forum members that are legit should either get rid of the opinionated bosses and start their own site with no “Team Leaders” and if you disagree with the bosses, they kick you off. Misha
Send me pictures. I only collect Heer so the others are of no interest to me. Thanks for the kind offer. The article was indeed a bit basic but if I get too technical, it will pass over the heads of many collectors and be worthless. Your comments on the negative aspect of forums is quite correct. All one sees are pieces that are of recent manufacture, be these of daggers, medals and, yes, belt buckles. And in addition, there are pages of semi-literate complaints, criticisms, braggadocio and spite.Thank you again for your comments and await the buckle pictures.
ADR
I will send the pictures probably next week.
M.
Thanks
Just a note, the SS RODO buckle pictured at the top of this post is original. Indeed, if you look at the catch foot, it is different from ALL the buckles (fake) shown in Dr. Thayer’s article.
Regards
brus
It is certainly original in that it exists.
It is a fake. A bad fake.
Dold never made buckles like this.
This buckle is a modern reproduction, selling to the trade for about $15.00.
Is there one in your collection by any chance?
The Thayer buckles all are original.
You neglected to comment on the second picture of a genuine RODO buckle that is identical with the Thayer one.
I wonder how many collectors have fake RODO buckles now in their collections?
From correspondence and viewing collections on the Internet, I would say hundreds.
Amazingly, no one sends pictures to support their arguments.
No, the picture at the top of my article is a crude fake RODO buckle and the second picture of a RODO buckle, identical with the Thayer buckles, is genuine.
I have had considerable correspondence from buckle collectors on this subject.
Most agree that the Thayer pieces are original and the ones who disagree and claim they are all fake have produced not one iota of proof other than to make statements that their buckle is “obviously original.”
I have had identical kinds of correspondence from individuals who bought “investment quality SS honor rings” and were outraged when I pointed out, accurately, that original rings were never cast but struck, were never issued after November 11, 1943 and always had the skull soldered to the face.
The fakes are cast, have the wrong dates inside and the skull is a cast part of the ring.
These rings cost about $35.00 to have made and now no one buys even the most polished “investment quality” ring.
One does see them at local militaria shows for far, far less than someone paid for them previously.
And the flood of furious denials finally tapered off as awareness grew and there was silence.
I see this as happening to the fake RODO buckles, now so treasured but soon ending up on ebay as unwelcome.
ADR
There must have been millions of enlisted personnel belt buckles made by the Germans during WW II. These cannot be worth a great deal intrinsically but because they are really not very expensive, many collectors have them. I have seen many pictures of purported “original: Dold buckles and there are so many “variants” shown on the Internet that no reasonable person would believe that one company, the Dold people, would have made so many different pieces. To me it is obvious that this buckle has been widely faked and the name ‘RODO’ stamped onto all kinds of different buckles as to make even the originals relatively worthless. You see silly statements on the forums every day. “The black on my panzer general’s hat is the real black. The black on Jimmy’s hat is just the wrong color black.”
That’s the sort of nonsense I am talking about.
Misha
Oh yes, we see this every day.
Next, we will be seeing violent arguments erupting over pebbled standard enlisted tunic buttons.
The number of pebblings, the color, the roundness of the loop on the reverse will all be dissected on the forums.
Naturally, there will be a ‘Combat Button Site,” complete with “Monotor” and many badly-written comments on tunic buttons.
Fierce arguments about the significance of the number of pebblings will erupt and we will see such nonsense as “We all know that 187 pebbles is a sure sign that this button is for an SS uniform.”
Or “the color grey on Parrot Beak’s button shows it was only worn on tunics at Anzio, not Stalingrad as some wrongly think.”
And someone else, calling himself some imbecilic name like “The Button Führer” will say that all buttons with less than 155 pebblings are obvious fakes made in India, Pakistan, China, Bulgaria or Algeria.
(Pay your money and take your choice.)
But this one gives CoA with all the buttons he sells.
Who is this Keating person they keep yammering about on the forums?
Misha
That is one Prosper Keating.
He is Irish from a very old family, an ex-British paratrooper, well-educated,intelligent and very, very knowledgeable in his field.
He made a documentary that won a top prize at the Cannes Festival and has written some excellent articles on the Knights Cross (of which he is a premier expert) and is hated by many members of militaria forums because, like myself, he exposes fakes and frauds.
Screaming collectors and forum leaders throw him off their sites because he knows too much.
The forums and the collecting need more characters like Mr. Keating, not less.
ADR
I have been following your correspondence with this person with some amusement. He wanted a dialog with you that apparently wanted you to agree with him. I know nothing about German belt buckles but this one just kept shouting at you and never came up with anything to support his views. Are all the collectors like this one? I suggest that you disregard his comments and spend more time on more productive matters.
Misha
I always try to keep an open mind and answer legitimate concerns from my readers.
This is not always successful, I assure you.
Some correspondents spend hours telling you how wrong you are and how brilliant they are.
A collector who spent a great deal of money on a fake ‘Feldherrnhalle’ dagger or an ‘SS Honor Ring’
spends even more time trying to convince anyone who will listen to them that you are wrong and they are right.
These are the sort of people who still think George W. Bush was a good president.
Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.